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I find it difficult to conceive how an Ignition Weapon will usurp the role of a Floor Guardian... merely taking control of a long-dead corpse doesn't (or at least shouldn't) suddenly give extra powers... the theory seems heavily unlikely in my opinion anyway.
Nahhhhh, the only people that know about Hoaqin are FUG, Sachi, Boro, Daniel, Aka and Roen. All other Regulars that would have encountered him, would have died on the train 600 years ago.
Athanos wrote: Since dominating a single Hell Train station didn't disqualify Kaiser, it shouldn't disqualify Hockney. =)
I guess so :P
That's a fair point... given some actual thought, I'd say David Hockney best fits the description. He regarded as the strongest D-rank Scout and is someone Sachi can swear by (though the fact that he would never leave Mushroom Farm doesn't help his case).
Quote: The fact that this 43rd floor is unique is that regulars can use shinsoo without limitations (I used to think the contrary but it appears to be false). It's not a floor where you can't use shinsuu, it is the opposite.
The problem with this is that normal Regulars (and Rankers) have no real experience manipulating shinsoo without a Floor Guardian's permission. Irregulars on the other hand...
Not to mention, the shinsoo has been noted by SIU to be 'very weak' on this Floor; to me, that sounds like a limitation in and of itself. Though we'll see how the mechanics of the Floor affects everyone soon enough XD
I feel like the playing field is gonna be levelled a little bit, with the only real advantage being a physical one (so the Zahard Princesses have a big advantage). It says that all contracts are nullified on this Floor but does that really mean every contract, up to and including the Zahard 11's immortality contracts ?
Baam learning how to control shinsoo like an Irregular was always going to happen by the 43rd Floor (he's a late bloomer after all). That said, I'm interested to see how his shinsoo control + Thorn will react on this Floor considering the Thorn (something native to this Floor) massively augments his shinsoo control abilities. I feel like he's going to display power relative to the present [High] Rankers (if not only because of the contracts nullification mechanic). Will also be interesting to see how the Floor mechanics will affect Rachel...
The danger of the Floor probably puts FUG off from the idea. More trouble than it's worth or something ?
Having lived there for centuries and having been a High Ranker in all that time, I'll be very disappointed if Garam isn't the most fearsome/powerful character we see (unless another big name presents themselves). Also, will Hockney have a "home advantage" at all ?
I do see quite a few deaths occurring and I'm dreading the very likely idea that Hoaqin will be one of them... T-T
EternET wrote: And Phantaminum can detroy the whole tower with a simple thought (and it's not my fanboyism, that's from SIU).
What, have you been shocked by the "God of Shinsoo" thing?
I only expressed an opinion man.
To some people, better argument in favour of a character = Fanboy
Quote: Wow EternET, your fanboyism knows no bounds
???
Athanos wrote: That's more of a false answer. We know--from Baam's limited exposition--that it had taken a while before he first built that pile to reach the light, and then it had still taken quite some time before Rachel first entered the cave from beyond the light. All in all, he should have died of dehydration and maybe even starvation before Rachel first showed up, and that doesn't even account for the time before he started building that pile of which we know nothing.
In fact, the only answer that comes to mind, albeit speculative, is that Baam had been sustained by Shinsoo leaking from the Tower or something of the like.
*shrugs shoulders* XD
Clash.Bikash wrote: SIU ever explain why Bam in that cave in the first place, Who locked him their and Rachel came from the light in the celing what is beyond that celing, and also we know that Rachel bring food for Bam but from where ?
Definitive answer: There's still not enough info to give one, unfortunately.
Since the skill merely requires that one is able to manipulate shinsoo without the Floor Guardian's authority, it's really just a shinsoo control hyper-upgrade. Considering that the GoG mentioned prior that he was going to show Baam how to control shinsoo like the 10 Great Families (I assume he really means the 10 Family Heads), I feel like Shinwonryu is merely a ferociously powerful application of "manipulating shinsoo without the Floor Guardian's authority".
But back to the original question, I feel like once he gets to grips with Shinwonryu, he'll be able to duke it out relatively evenly with Hoaqin as he is now (since how do you properly defend against an intense shinsoo implosion without being a powerhouse ?).
Short answer: Rachel.
Definitive answer: There's still not enough info to give one.
The25thKnight wrote: OH man these latest chapters just keep leaning more and more towards bam becoming OP literally described by Evan one of the top high rankers as monstrous growth.... Weird... I'm sure Demotivator Eternet and Tonysansnom will say something along the lines of "well world destroying power doesn't necessarily make him op, you have to be able to destroy galaxies before you can challenge the likes of Arie and Urek. Lol. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Well world destroying power doesn't necessarily make him OP, you have to be able to destroy galaxies before you can challenge the likes of Arie and Urek. Lol. XD
EternET wrote: Shouldn't this topic be in Questions and answers ?
Done !
EternET wrote: Oh don't be so pessimistic, you forgot Urek and Zahard in your people of this caliber. And also : the 134th floor door, and the 135th floor test ! Since As a group of top irregulars Zahard and Co couldn't win this test, and even Enryu didn't "solo this instance !". Might be pretty tough don't you think ? So I submit to you: should Baam be able to pass this test, so that this b*tch Rachel gets what she wants and forgives him, so HE can finally get what he wants ? Isn't Baam's task the most extraordinary, hence doesn't he deserve unatural growth ? And it's not like he wants power for power's sake, so give it to him! I don't say "God-mode Sue", but up to a challenge nobody in the tower could face so far. And as long as we don't know how tough this is (nor how much more complicated it should become after, since we don't even know if there are even other floors until the "last test of the tower"(from tape recorder Gustang's friend)), you can make Baam pretty OP, without breaking the "challenge" scale of what there's to accomplish in the story.
Ahhh, but I did not. I specifically said, "OP in comparison to someone of Arie Hon's level"; that means Baam would likely fodderize (or at least severely outmatch) someone of Arie Hon's level at this point. I could be wrong, but I doubt Zahard or Urek could fodderize a person like Arie Hon.
I'll say it again: my only issue with Baam becoming OP (to someone like Arie Hon) is the time it takes for him to do so. If he achieves this power level shortly after becoming a Ranker (or thereabouts), the integrity of the story can remain (since you can pretty much do what you want and go where you want as a Ranker). However, if he achieves this power around the 100th Floor then where does the story go from there ? You basically lose the mystery of the remaining climbable 34 Floors and skip straight to the part where Baam amasses the pieces of the Key to the Tower, kills Zahard, ends FUG, and challenges the 135th Floor and escapes the Tower all without breaking much of a sweat. And that would all be without taking into account what this would mean for the other characters such as Wangnan, Koon, Yuri etc.
The25thKnight wrote: Ok come on Demotivator its highly unlikely that Urek climbed the tower alone not only do you usually need other positions for certain tests its almost certain that Baek Ryun joined him in climbing the tower seeing as how they are best friends
Hahahaha, you're not ready kid. First and foremost, Baek Ryun climbed the Tower long before Urek did. While it hasn't been stated that Urek climbed alone it makes the most logical sense (like EternET also mentioned). I can 100% guarantee that he didn't climb with the same people otherwise they would share his record of a 50 year climb. That much is obvious, no ?
The25thKnight wrote: your starting to get a bit ridiculous in the Urek Fanboy department.
The25thKnight wrote: Its also hilarious to me that your so against "God mode Sue" characters but your a die hard fan and propigator of everything Urek.
Eh... ?
...hahahahaha !
At what point have I ever stated my love and adoration for Urek ? I'm using him as part of my argument, that is all. My love and adoration belongs to FUG and FUG alone.
Quote: Woah woah woah i can indeed compare Baams current ascension of the tower as an indication as any non OP characters such as Leesoo akraptor wangnan etc that have made it to the same level have done so by relying on OP characters like Baam or Androssi and Anak who also happen to often either be on a team with baam or at the very least coordinating with Baam and his team. Are you implying that Urek made it up the tower alone with no team??
I would be very surprised if Baam broke Urek's record, especially considering the team he has around him.
EternET wrote: So my point is "OP in comparison to someone of Arie Hon's level" would be possible, even at 100th Floor (however, if Baam gets to this level of power, how could FUG force him to stay/act/behave as they wish ?). All in all, I hope this stays somewhat consistant.
Well, anything is possible since it's SIU controlling this story, not me hahaha. But the point you mention is one of my main reasons as to why Baam shouldn't reach that level of power before the 100th Floor.
[This is moreso for the anon user]
So forget FUG, if Baam reaches "OP in comparison to someone of Arie Hon's level" then there would be no-one in the Tower, bar Phantaminum and possibly Enryu, who'd be able to match him. No-one. Understand how bad that is from a storytelling point of view ? I'll tell you: any semblance of a good story pretty much ends right there.
Unless it's satirical (or similar), God-Mode Sues are almost always bad for a story. What people hope for when they say they want Tower-breaker God-Mode Sue Baam by the 100th Floor is pretty much the end of a great story.
Quote: Well Demotivator if you notice i said he CAN control shinsoo without a contract but up till now we have seen no one besides baam who controlled shinsoo without even meaning to not just without a contract Baam had zero intention of controlling the shinsoo to attack hwa ryun it just happened and as far as we know Urek or anyone else is incapable of provoking a response from shinsoo without the slightest bit of intent, it was a completely subconcious attack on baams part and correct me if im wrong but i dont believe there are any instances spoken of or otherwise where someone completely subconciously controlled shinsoo.
You realise what you're trying to defend is a truly unimpressive feat. Baam subconsciously controlling shinsoo without a contract highlighted that 1) He is 100% an Irregular (since he can utilise shinsoo without the Guardian's permission) and 2) He had absolutely no skill in regards to shinsoo control at that point in time. It pretty much proved that it was all an instinctual action in response to the danger posed to Rachel...
Quote: Also for the record i seriously doubt enryu is Baams father there has been no evidence for that at all, the only reason i say Enne could be his mother is because there have been plenty of instances in the story thout COULD be an indicator of that visa vi logic.
Fair enough, not gonna debate the Enne thing here ^^
Quote: And again we have no reason to believe Baam will not be as strong as Urek was or stronger by the time he gets to floor 100. If i recall correctly Urek passed all floors in 50 years well it hasnt been anywhere near 50 years and Baam is already in the 40s of the tower floors and his power is exponentially increasing as the story continues... your a fool if you think he wont be OP by floor 100.
Woah woah woah, hold your horses pardner ! You cannot use or compare Baam's current ascension of the Tower as an indication since quite a few other characters have also reached the same Floor as Baam and they pale in comparison to his strength (e.g. Koon, Leesoo, Androssi etc).
Baam by the 100th Floor:
Baam by the 134th Floor (i.e. by the time he's become a Ranker):
Quote: Yo demotivator why you so quick to shut down everyone elses ideas?? You think your SIU?
Shutting down others' ideas ? But of course mon ami ! If the reasoning behind an idea is weak or nonsensical, I'm gonna rebut without restriction.
Quote: I completely believe that Baam will have the power to beat Arie or Karaka by the time he arrives on their floor. Baam has almost unlimted potential to become OP and the only thing holding him back is himself. I also think his attack on Hwa Ryun was way more than fight or flight response and as far as Urek they said that he could control shinsu without a contract not that he can control it without even meaning to.
Why do you believe this will occur ? Everyone knows Baam has nigh limitless potential, but what is the indication that he will achieve Arie Hon-level power by the 100th Floor ?
Umm... Baam subconsciously made the shinsoo attack Hwa Ryun without a contract. Urek can control shinsoo without a contract. There is absolutely no difference between the two other than the fact that Urek can actively control shinsoo without a contract whilst Baam currently cannot.
Quote: Many characters in this series have implied that he has hidden power and that when he grows into it he can stand at the top of the tower. So what you think hes gonna become so epic powerful that he can challenge Zahard by slowly training in the tower for thousands of years?? probably not.. I guarantee that Baam is able to crush Arie by the time he makes it to floor 100 especially after training with GOG. You really think the protaganist of the story that so many powers in the tower have taken interest in and put their hopes in is gonna turn out weaker than Urek?? Also im pretty sure when everyone says Urek was a monster when he entered the tower they meant he was an adult with a brash and aggressive personality that learned very quickly. Imagine if Baam came into the power with his talent but actually had crazy ambitions and liked to hurt people instead of being a big ole softie. Im sure people would have said he was a monster then too.
Oh lord, here we go... I've already stated in many places that I believe Baam to have the potential to one of the strongest in the Tower; you'd have to be utterly inane not to believe so. My only issue is the time it takes for Baam to reach this level. Yes, Baam's growth is very quick but if it was so remarkably quick as certain people think it is, he'd be much stronger at this point than he is now. I'm sure the GoG's training will greatly elevate his power levels, but even then I can't see him "crushing" Arie Hon by the 100th Floor for various reasons.
Wow... really ? If the word "monster" describes someone with a brash and aggressive personality then a lot of measly Regulars would fit the term. Urek walked in the Tower already a powerhouse; there's no comparison. If Baam came into the Tower with a brash aggressive attitude, he'd just be an arrogant weakling (kind of like 20F Prince). Come on kid, you need to come harder than that.
Quote: Also im still pretty positive his mother is Enne. Theres been a lot of hints towards that despite what naysayers like Demotivator may say. His Grandpa saving him during the tournament arc and their ridiculously similar looks made it pretty Obvi. Also Baams style of learning shinsoo control skills is almost a direct merger of the way Eurasia Blossom and Po Bidau Gustang learned. They stated Blossom had a very natural innate way of controling shinsoo that made Gustang envious whereas he approched shinsoo control in a very systematic and orderly way.
I assume you also think Baam's father is Enryu... ??
I'll believe it when I see it. You can gloat all you want then ??