Talk:Twenty-Fifth Baam/Abilities and Powers/@comment-47.138.224.21-20170115063141/@comment-26484417-20170118165336

@Demotivator: If we're going by the taxonomical approach you propose, then this line "you can't have a style without first having the basic ability to manipulate shinsoo (contract or no contract)" is simply untrue. If your taxonomical tree doesn't have a branch for "no style" on the same level as other styles, then your tree is simply incomplete.

There should be no reason to address the second paragraph, it's closely related to my reply to EternET below. As for the last paragraph, you may want to revisit the notion of Baang. Still no idea what you mention the pseudo-black hole, it has nothing to do with it, but from what I can see and read in those chapters, it looks like simply a much more volatile Baang; what you mention about the "contract-less" Baang is basically a somewhat stripped-off definition of Baang--any Baang.

@EternET: What you reason is entirely beside the point. At the very best, what your reasoning proves is that Shinwonryu is not the only way to manipulate Shinsoo without contract, but that's also what I've been saying here. Let's illustrate with an example "moving in the water" (i.e., swimming), because it neatly fits all scenarios this time around:  One cannot float on their own, so they swim with an aid (i.e., control with contract) One can float on their own, so they don't need an aid (i.e., control without contract)  One can swim butterfly style One can swim breaststroke style etc. etc. (one of these could be likened to Shinwonryu, because person has to swim somehow)   

With this example, do you understand the issue? It doesn't matter whether Baam used Shinwonryu back then during the Crown Game (despite what you write, you cannot disprove the possibility), because even if he hadn't, it would merely mean that he subconsciously used one way of controlling Shinsoo without contract, while now he's learnt another way of controlling Shinsoo consciously; one way or the other, the level below Shinwonryu shouldn't be "control Shinsoo without contract", it should be either "no control of Shinsoo whatsoever", or--in case we're not discussing merely the act of controlling but also intention--"subconscious control of Shinsoo".