Talk:Twenty-Fifth Baam/Abilities and Powers/@comment-47.138.224.21-20170115063141/@comment-6166034-20170118205752

@   Athanos

I'm not beside the point, I'm responding to exactly what you put, you are confused by the notions.

"   Let's illustrate with an example "moving in the water" (i.e., swimming), because it neatly fits all scenarios this time around: "
 * 1) One cannot float on their own, so they swim with an aid (i.e., control with contract)
 * 2) One can float on their own, so they don't need an aid (i.e., control without contract)
 * 3) One can swim butterfly style
 * 4) One can swim breaststroke style
 * 5) etc. etc. (one of these could be likened to Shinwonryu, because person has to swim somehow)

"moving in the water" (i.e., swimming) is an end, a consequence of your action. here you can say "I am swimming because I float on my own butterfly style.", or "I float on my own because I can swim butterfly style." remarq that it is non transitive, you don't make much sense if you say "I swim butterfly because I float on my own".

And what does your equivalents do ? : "I control with or without contract because I use a technique/ materialise a baang.". You're confusing causes/means and consequences/ends. That's why you think you're making sense equaling ways of getting the same ends (i.e. swimming), when we're discussing different means/ends (i.e. ways to prevent you from drowning).

So that's why "using shinsoo without a contract" is a "prerequisite" (mean) to form shinwonryu (end), and why you have to distinct "contracts" "manipulations" "styles" and "techniques".