Talk:Enryu/@comment-28805348-20160705184138/@comment-26484417-20160713033415

@Red Shinsoo: First one is my mistake, it was so well hidden among the misunderstandings and suspicious speculations that I got overexcited. If it was only Guardians to non-Irregulars then that statement was only irrelevant not false; my apologies.

Second, your reason for the choice of Floor makes no difference; what I wrote in the previous comment applies regardless. Also, it wasn't an attempt to mislead, it was a pertinent illustration relying on information at our disposal. After all, we may not have information about how Urek compares to Arie Hon post 134F, but we know how they compared on 100F.

Third, that assumption about Enryu killing the Guardian during his climb is the only assumption one can make by strictly adhering to the information at our disposal. Every alternative requires additional assumptions, which means they can be discounted merely by applying Occam’s razor. I don’t particularly insist that this is what must have happened, but it's currently the veto explanation.

From what you say about what you did and why, you’re definitely misunderstanding some things and adding logical fallacies to boot. Yes, I did say that about Enryu and Urek, but what’s that thing about the remaining Irregulars? I never said that, it’s nonsense, and it directly contradicts both what I said and what we know about 100F.

Fourth, have you even read what I wrote in relation to Zahard, or did you only misunderstand it? If that was your point--which it clearly wasn’t since you spoke of Family Heads until you “restated the perspective” in your previous comment (yes, I did check your comments to be sure)--, and you read and understood what I wrote on Zahard, then you’d know that this (new) goal of yours was accomplished since before you joined the discussion. The comment is still up there, feel free to check it out. Regardless, now that we're caught up, I don’t really care that you believe or claim it was your idea from the beginning.

Finally, since when are Urek’s feats comparable to Enryu’s; are you sure you're not mixing them up? (Note: Your nickname and the fact that you point it out make what you wrote even more unsettling than it would be otherwise.) That following part about Eduan is non-sequitur, because what you propose doesn't follow from your initial assumption; more like the opposite.

Also, did you not read my previous comment? I explicitly elaborated why Baek Ryun’s political influence cannot be the sole reason he's ranked higher than most of the Irregulars. We currently know of three components to the rankings: political power, accomplishments, and strength. Since Baek Ryun's profile mentions no accomplishments and his political power should be comparable to that of Family Heads, we have no choice but to assume his strength must be also comparable to theirs (i.e., weaker than some, stronger than others). It might not be true, but there is currently nothing to disprove this and what we know, limited though it may be, inevitable leads to this conclusion. Your choice to address my point by comparison between Enne and Baek indicates that you either didn't read what I wrote (i.e., what we know at this point), or you simply misunderstood it. To explain, we know that being a 13MS Princess with one 13MS weapon isn't enough to merit such high ranking because of Yuri who was ~500 with Black March alone, which means that her ranking was raised via strength and accomplishments (i.e., completely different base from Baek Ryun's ranking). What you did there is called false analogy.

By the way, readers actually don’t know that Phantaminum is God in the Tower, we only know that Phantaminum is an Axis. Still, this means that he may not have opened the doors or climbed the Tower like Irregulars. In fact, his profile says that he "appeared suddenly in the Tower and stormed Zahard's palace", and there is no mention of something like a climb. So no, readers shouldn’t really consider him an Irregular. It's true that he's known as an Irregular in the Tower, but SIU already pointed out characters' ignorance on the matter. Still, if you absolutely insist, then just add +1 to that one number mentioned when I brought this up.

PS: This has gone sideways, so I'm leaving the discussion now that the original point has been resolved. Thank you for accompanying me until the end.