Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31188206-20170201130302/@comment-26207833-20170204145820

Athanos wrote:

Lord Asriel Sew wrote: Nope, it's not the same thing. Jahad has a way to control Jahad's Princesses, while he does not with the "Princes". 1) If by "control" you mean rules and promise of punishment for disobeying, then that could have been equally applied to Princes. If you mean anything else, then you're just imagining things. 2) As a matter of fact, there are two "known" Princes (Karaka and Wangnan) who survived the purge, and 3) there are two known Princesses (Garam and Yuri) who defied Zahard's rules and are still at large--one of them isn't even persecuted for her trespasses... yet. Then there is Repellista who likely has better control over her fellow Princesses than Zahard himself, and who is also breaking Zahard's rules without anyone noticing since she has "helped the enemy of Zahard" a number of times--albeit indirectly. Then there is Enne who is sealed instead of being dead for some reason, and let's not forget the case that is Anak Jr. All in all, the numbers suggest that Zahard has worse control over Princesses than he had over Princes.

Lord Asriel Sew wrote: ... rest ... 4) Hwa Ryun's remark about "worst mistake" could mean a lot of things. One plausible explanation is that the mistake wasn't creation of Princes, but failure to eradicate all of them. Another is that it was distribution of rings to them, because--unlike Princesses who were all greatly empowered by his boost an therefore able to defend the 13MS--some Princes were too weak to properly safeguard their ring. It could indeed be that the "worst mistake" was letting them be born, obviously, but you get the point by now. '''5) As for the remainder of the theory, I see a lot of problems. For one, it's contradicting itself, because Princesses are also blood-related to Zahard. As a matter of fact, when it comes to blood-relation this part, we don't know enough about Princes to say whether they were directly fathered by Zahard (i.e., possibly closer to Zahard), were infused with Zahard's blood like Princesses, or were actually born to Princesses (i.e., even further removed from Zahard). After all, something must have lead Zahard to introduce the "no children" rule, so it's quite possible that the first Princesses weren't bound by the same rule-set we know today.'''

6) By the way, you brought up the Kronos myth, but there is currently no real suggestion--much less evidence--that Zahard's circumstances have anything in common with this particular myth. In fact, it feels like your approach is a bit reversed, and you're instead trying to interpret the information and hints by force in a way that the resulting theory fits the analogy. In any case, Kronus wasn't biased toward one gender and gulped down both his sons and daughters. 1) SIU said so himself (that Jahad had a mean to control his Princesses) http://bato.to/forums/topic/9544-sius-qa-translations-discussions/?hl=siu and even if it was in 2010, I don't think such an important element could be discarded.

2) False. There are at least 3. Rachel doesn't know of Karaka's ring, and she didn't know that Wangnan had one before allying with him. But when she asked him to climb with her and talked to him about what she knew on the rings, she said "because I know someone who has a ring like this".

3) False. Jahad does not fear Baam. Ren said that he could wait before he became a ranker to make him part of Jahad's Empire's strenght, which means they don't fear Baam up there. And moreover, Yuri might be tresspassing by helping Baam, but Jahad, having a way to control them, has an eye on Baam all the time, that is Yuri. I don't think she knows herself that she could be controled. To me, the ones that did know it were Enne and Garam. The first was sealed because she was furious because of that (and not killed because she was Jahad's favourite), and the latter hid on the FOD so that no one in Jahad's Empire will come to bother her. Btw, Anaak was with her when she was younger that's why she wasn't punished. And now that she climbs with Androssi to cover her ass, she's safe, for the moment.

4) True but it doesn't make my argument false, it's just another theory. However, I do not think that jahad wants the key to be assembled anew, since it could make high rankers go to the 135th floor and above and would put an end (a symbolic one in all cases) to his reign.

5) False again. Jahad's daughters don't have his blood. Go to the Jahad's Princesses page if you want to verify. It's solely because of a difficulty in the translation that it is said that they got infused with his "blood" but none of them has a single drop of Jahad's DNA in them. However, it could be "power" that is embodied by a substance in ToG (the Thorn for exemple), and that can be hereditary transmited.

6) I found this theory somewhere in the comments on this wiki and I fought that it was cool so I talked about it here. And Jahad being immortal without any downside is not possible because he requires to make a contract with the Guardians of the Tower. And them, abiding by the Tower's rules, can impose them on Irregulars indirectly (Hendo Lok Bloodmadder's case where it shortens his children's lifespan). What if the Guardians could give Jahad's true heirs the potential to kill Jahad, or at least, to weaken him importantly ? It would not affect directly Jahad but it could work since a contract without flaws don't exist anywhere, and even for someone like Jahad, this contract is a lifesaver. Otherwise, Grace Mirchea Lusclec would've killed him with FUG long ago.

Sorry for the double post, it's because when I quote 2 different messages, all that I had written dissapeared for some reason, without any possibility to take it back.